Talk:Amanda Reid

Are Amanda Fowler and Amanda Reid the same person?

I have yet to find any clear evidence to prove that swimmer Amanda Fowler is now the cyclist Amanda Reid. Anyone? DGtal (talk) 08:41, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

-- The selection event for Paracycling Track World Championships was Cycling Australian Paracycling Track National Championships in Adelaide. A cyclist named Amanda Fowler, from NSW, raced that event in the C2 class: http://www.cycling.org.au/Events/Track-National-Championships/News/All-News/para-cycling-track-nationals-open-in-a-scorcher-in-adelaide. Two weeks later, Amanda Reid was announced as a member of the Australian team for Worlds: http://www.cycling.org.au/News/All-News/australian-team-for-2016-uci-para-cycling-track-world-championships. (I know Amanda Fowler/Reid by sight, so can confirm from photos of the event that it is the right Amanda Fowler). There are social media posts from places like Cycling NSW that explicitly make the connection: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1049159701823755&id=372570322816033 Sportygeek (talk) 02:16, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

That's good enough for me. Just one un-PC question/comment: She is currently categorised in Category:Indigenous Australian Paralympians but to my unexperienced eye according to the pic here (and here) she looks more like a white person. DGtal (talk) 07:35, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

• this source says Amanda Reid made her debut at the 2016 games. Cycing Australia calls here a debutant here.

{http://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/2015/12/03/australias-indigenous-paralympians-receive-long-overdue-recognition here] are pictures of amanda fowler in 2015; no mention of her competing in the 2016 olympics.

This is unclear to me. The person who created this article is User:LauraHale who is a sports journalist covering paralymic and disability sports news per their Userpage and this, so can maybe help bring sources that will resolve this. Pinged her here and also sent her an email. Jytdog (talk) 21:46, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Both those sources are talking about her debut in cycling. I trust the judgement of Sportygeek, but the best proof I've found independently is this Google Cache snippet from the Australian Paralympic Committee website which mentions Amanda Reid (Fowler) ... her name appears to have been deleted from the current copy of that page. Graham87 00:52, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

we don't trust people but rather sources and they brought facebook which is really weak. That you link you offered just now includes a link to a bio page that is now dead but it was saved at the internet archive; it says they are the same person. That pretty much nails it to me. Jytdog (talk) 01:25, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

I've added that ref to the article. Jytdog (talk) 23:08, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

16th May edits

@John Vandenberg and Jytdog: - Wonder whether you'd noticed the edits last night by MattyCameron97 (talk · contribs · count)? Was there any feedback from above that suggests we should be further whitewashing this article? Cheers, Gricehead (talk) 09:09, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

I don't know what the deal is with hiding her name; all I've heard is some privacy issue and it seems to me we bow to that, but I don't know. My main concern was whether they are the same person and we weren't making a mistake. They are the same, and we weren't making a mistake. The only thing that was definitely in Matty's edit was screwing up the hat, which I fixed. Jytdog (talk) 09:28, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up, and for the tidy up Jytdog. I havent heard back on my latest offline query; I'll ping again on that.

What I do know is a) it is not whitewashing, as that would imply something scandalous is being hidden, and b) that the real world 'issue' becomes a lot simpler in about a week due to real world events that have hard deadlines, so it is probably best to sit tight until then. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 09:34, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

TO everyone. Check out the link that has been recently add. Proves that she is a s8. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MattyCameron97 (talk • contribs) 06:56, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

amanda reid is a member of CPSARA and that means Cerebral Palsy Sporting & Recreation Association so she has Cerebral Palsy right so how do you upload that??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Imcool246 (talk • contribs) 07:13, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

You need to stop disrupting this article. You need to provide a source for any change you want to make. That is policy per WP:BLP and WP:VERIFY. If you don't know how to add a source, bring the source here and I will add it. So what is the evidence that she has CP or is a member of CPSRA? Jytdog (talk) 07:15, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

http://nsw.swimming.org.au/visageimages/MC%20Meet%201%20Results%20by%20Event_Updated270416.pdf on pg 12 it has her name then team and the team says CPSARA so there your proof — Preceding unsigned comment added by Imcool246 (talk • contribs) 07:19, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

That is not strong enough for the claim that she has CP. You need something much more clear.. Jytdog (talk) 07:21, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

http://www.cpsara.org.au/membership.html you have to have proof for you to joni it god would you like her to send a pic of her report to you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Imcool246 (talk • contribs) 07:26, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

This is wikipedia policy. You cannot just say anything you want about a living person in Wikipedia. You need a good citation. Read WP:BLP and WP:VERIFY - we take this very seriously. What if somebody wanted to write something nasty about her, and acted with the same arrogance, edit-warring, SOCKing, and reckless disregard for Wikipedia's policies as you? Your behavior and your attitude are terrible. Respect Wikipedia's policies or get the hell out of here. Jytdog (talk) 07:32, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

You need to bring a reference that supports the content you want to add. A publication. See WP:RS. Somebody showing up here and just writing something is not a reliable source. Again, read the policies. Jytdog (talk) 07:39, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

i found her team page hope this helps you https://www.facebook.com/Amanda-Reid-1209059615812610/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Imcool246 (talk • contribs) 09:46, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Not reliable, as I already told you twice now. Read WP:RS, WP:BLP, and WP:VERIFY. Jytdog (talk) 11:36, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

And yes, you cannot edit the article anymore. No one can except an administrator. I asked for that to be done, and it was done, because of your abuse of Wikipedia. Jytdog (talk) 11:37, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

John Vandenberg, was this edit by DGtal OK? I've reverted it as a precaution for now, but if it is to be reinstated, the mention of her former name from this version of the article should probably be used. Graham87 09:26, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

You can't have it both ways: linking to a source titled "Amanda Fowler" to show her birth date and at the same time ignoring the claim that Fowler is her birth name. Either you add Fowler or you remove the source. DGtal (talk) 10:10, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

Having it mentioned prominently was distressing her for very good reason. I know that John was (is?) in private contact with one of the people involved here, which is why I pinged him. Graham87 14:23, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

She hasnt responded to my last email, so 'was' is about right. As she is now part of the Rio team, the public interest in her past career exists. It is hard to weigh that against the risks, but those risks were known before the Rio team announcement. She and the people around her decided to proceed with Rio. At this stage at least a comment is needed, to prevent wrong conclusions & edits by well intended editors. Then we have the problem of not having a RS for the name change... making any wp bio about her either wrong/misleading or wp:OR, or a delicate mix of both as is currently the case :/ One thing is certain if we include her old name before an RS does...we will regret doing it first, as the risk to her lives on long after Rio. I havent seen her prominently in any news coverage yet. Also we need to check photos of before and after to see when new RS published photos are similar enough to give away the new name, and be an implicit record of fact. If she looks substantially different, it would be consistent with a complete identity change without any RS linking the names. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 01:26, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

You two are talking in some secret code unclear to me. If I do understand correctly there is a private (none of me business) reason that causes you two to prefer not to mention her "alleged" (for lack of better expression) past life as a swimmer and since there is no clear RS to make the connection it is legit to sever the connection at least for now. If this is the case we should either have an article on the swimmer or on the cyclist, not one article on two people. DGtal (talk) 07:32, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

There is some weird thing going on where the subject of this article asked for her former name to be suppressed due to some personal safety issue. I don't fully understand the issue but have just gone along with it. Jytdog (talk) 08:21, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

It's OK to mention her past life as a swimmer as this source and this more recent one do; it's just not OK to overtly mention her former name. Graham87 09:27, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, but this is becoming weird. Both sources say clearly she swam in London 2012, so any reader who wishes to learn about Australia at the 2012 Summer Paralympics will find very quickly there is no Reid on the roster and only one Amanda in the swimming squad. The only thing you might gain from not overtly mentioning the maiden name is avoiding google. Anyone trying to research Amanda will probably find the current name in 5 minutes anyway. DGtal (talk) 06:26, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

No reliable sources overtly mention her name change, so we shouldn't either; doing so would be original research and would violate the privacy policy about biographies of living people. Until fairly recently, we were very conservative with the Star Wars Kid article, until it became clear that he chose to put his real name out there. Graham87 15:42, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

If no RS overtly mentions a name change (i.e. A≠B) then logic dictates there is no RS that can be a source for writing one biographic article containing results from both person A's swimming career and person B's cycling career. DGtal (talk) 08:21, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Except, as said above, there are reliable sources saying she both swam at the last Paralympics and is scheduled to cycle at this year's competition. I think we've got the balance about right to make sure this article is as informative as possible while doing what we can to keep her privacy intact. Graham87 09:21, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

An RS does mention the name change. See the bio tab here. It also describes her switch from swimming to cycling. Jytdog (talk) 12:15, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Four years later, many more articles have been released that now mention her former name from both international and local outlets. Reasonably, the Australian Paralympic link above was enough to provide an authoritative source. In any case, her former name is not "secret" (if it ever was) and will enable her page to be more easily located by those who know her by that name. -- AtomCrusher (talk) 19:48, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

No. Her preference is paramount here per the biographies of living persons policy, and as far as I can determine has not changed (though I'll make enquiries ... once again). How did you find out about this situation? Without going into too many details, the last sentence of your message is exactly what she did *not* want. We should be conservative here, like we were with the Star Wars Kid. Graham87 06:03, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Also see this thread on my talk page. Graham87 06:16, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

I didn't notice until now (because I didn't feel the need to check the diff) that her former name had been added in this edit by Zyxw back in June. Since there haven't been any major incidents since then, and omitting the former name causes soooooooo many problems, I think it's OK to leave her former name there and I've added it in completely. Graham87 15:33, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Hi

I do not wish for my old last name to be on here if we could remove it that would be great AReid96 (talk) 06:02, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

No. Honestly I've run out of patience with this name-hiding thing, which probably doesn't do that much to help your safety in the long run anyway (as shown by the fact that it was up there for three months without incident, along with the many other sources that use it). Your old name was not only mentioned on the BBC but on an article written with input from your mother. You've chosen to go to three Paralympics; you have to deal with the consequences of this choice. Other editors should also see this archived conflict of interest noticeboard discussion, which hasn't been linked on this page until now; the sensitive parts of it are only available to admins. Graham87 17:49, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

I never see it on other people page it’s even on my birth certificate saying I was born Reid so i would like this rectified on my page please AReid96 (talk) 02:16, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Most people don't change the name they compete under without a publicly explained and obvious reason (e.g. marriage). Re your birth name, we'll need a published reference. Graham87 02:33, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

I've tweaked the page to remove the notion that you were born Amanda Fowler (the cited reference doesn't say so anyway). Graham87 02:48, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Editing 11th April

Amanda Reid/Fowler did go to Blaxland high Found this one her https://www.bluemountainsgazette.com.au/story/273587/blaxland-swimmer-selected-for-paralympics/ Looks like she did go to Blaxland high school

And another one

https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/sport/cycling/2016/09/03/speed-amanda-reid-19-cyclist/14728248003671 Zoe1987 (talk) 12:02, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

I think the picture of Amanda Reid/Fowler is a little old so maybe a updated one Zoe1987 (talk) 12:11, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for those; the school's official website is a good enough source for this though. I'm really not very qualified to do anything with the picture however. Graham87 12:21, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Oh, Blacksland! I misread, sorry. Why would she be listed under the other school's webpage then? Graham87 12:28, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

She did 1 year there I think Zoe1987 (talk) 12:31, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

As sorta implied by this reference. I'll go and update the article. Graham87 12:32, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

She ended back at Blaxland high school and not sure how to deal with the cerebral palsy stuff I do know she has it but I know you need prove Zoe1987 (talk) 12:36, 11 April 2018 (UTC) https://www.dailyliberal.com.au/story/4428078/amandas-story-inspires-video/

Found this say her cerebral palsy affects both sides of her body dose this helpZoe1987 (talk) 12:44, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, that sounds good to me. Will add. Graham87 12:48, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

I think it’s called cerebral palsy quadriplegiaZoe1987 (talk) 12:50, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Or as Wikipedia calls it, spastic quadriplegia. The spastic cerebral palsy article needs a bit of a trim ... hmmm. Graham87 12:54, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

I didn’t know it was called that but we have sorted some of this out Zoe1987 (talk) 12:58, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Yep, and that is a good thing. Also, I trimmed the spastic cerebral palsy article. Graham87 13:10, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

Just noticed User talk:138.217.33.33; wow. Graham87 14:27, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

I found out Amanda Reid/Fowler was hacked last night when I was doing some research on her so I would probably delete that talk page because I don’t think that fair on Amanda Reid/FowlerZoe1987 (talk) 20:30, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

That's unfortunate. However,we don't delete talk pages like that except in unusual circumstances and that talk page is just like what we've had to deal with in the past re her (see the above messages/user talk page threads), so that was either her or a very close friend/associate. Graham87 02:17, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

I would say more like a friend or something along them lines I would say it was unusual one yesterday but I can’t say about the others Zoe1987 (talk) 15:04, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Controversy

If baseless accusations about "exaggerated symptoms" are included in the article, then the relevant authority's response to such accusations should also be included: https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/2018/09/25/amanda-reids-case-certainly-not-unique-paralympic-committee-defends-silver This is needed to maintain a fair and balanced representation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.21.14.242 (talk) 00:34, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. Sounds fair enough; I've had a quick go using the source you've provided, and also clarified the source of the accusations. Graham87 01:25, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

if this is on this young woman page then why isn't it on other people page too??? like maddison Elliott,lakeisha patterson and paige leonhardt so if it going to be on her page I think you should do it for them too or it should be taken off because its not fear to have it for one and not the other's — Preceding unsigned comment added by Louisecox91 (talk • contribs) 03:27, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

https://www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/paralympic-classification-system-allegedly-open-abuse/ https://swimswam.com/father-paralympic-champion-jessica-long-speaks-cheating/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Louisecox91 (talk • contribs) 03:47, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Amanda's case has made the BBC; the two you mentioned haven't achieved that sort of notoriety, as far as I'm aware. The first site you linked is just a glorified blog, which are not reliable sources on Wikipedia. Graham87 15:34, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

Well you need to look at British Parliamentary Inquiry and the bbc about them there names are everywhere as I said before you can’t do it for one and not the others that’s not far for this poor lady — Preceding unsigned comment added by Louisecox91 (talk • contribs) 04:34, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/we-have-to-scrutinise-paralympians-f87ft9b7t — Preceding unsigned comment added by Louisecox91 (talk • contribs) 04:36, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

This is so not fear as it’s one persons opinion and you don’t even have her — Preceding unsigned comment added by Louisecox91 (talk • contribs) 04:45, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

The Times is abetter source. Feel free to add such info to other Paralympians' articles, with refs. I don't do much with most Paralympic articles these days for various reasons ... if you need help, ask at theteahouse. Graham87 15:33, 19 February 2019 (UTC)

This has now been covered by the ABC: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-03/paralympic-games-classification-system-exploited-australian/102165924

Reubot (talk) 10:55, 3 April 2023 (UTC)